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from a distance, i watched him take me
as the evening shattered and rained
on cupped flesh. his eyes grew dark
with forgotten promises
as mine grew bright with either fear
or anticipation.
i was unsure, even then.

trust me, he said, and i did.
believe me, he said, and i did.
take me, he said, and i did.
love me, i said, and he was silent.

he smothered my words with his lips,
and bound my hands with trust.
he lay back and watched
as i struggled with myself.
trust me, he said.
believe me, he said.
take me, he said.
and i did.

from a distance, i watched him take me
as day splintered in from dark.
you'll never tell, will you? he breathed
heavy with himself, stifling a response.
he traced fault-lines across my cheek,
closed his eyes, and pretended
he couldn't see me crack.


i know you, he said. i know you.
©2008-2009 =wonderfulrachel
:iconwonderfulrachel:

Author's Comments

a redraft of a redraft of a redraft of a draft of an interpretation of a conversation of an idea.

massive thanks to ~ruffiene. what a love.

submitted for the punctuation workshop at *writers-workshop...although punctuation is the least of my problems here.
crit is adored.


1. Do you usually punctuate your poetry? Why/why not?
It really depends on the length of the piece: if it's ridiculously short, then no. Otherwise yes, because it's very confusing to read if there isn't a clear break between thoughts apart from line breaks.
I'm sorry, I really can't formulate sentences that make sense today...

2. Are there lines in this poem where you were considering other punctuation (or no punctuation)? If so, what were you considering and why?
I struggled a bit with the speech-y bits. To " or not to "? That is the quesiton.

3. If this a new draft of an old poem, do you feel better about your choices this time, or do you feel as if you were forcing the punctuation use?
Yeah, I feel a bit better about it - I've added some punctuation, and taken some away. It seems okay.

4. Overall, what is the effect you would like this poem to have on the reader? In other words, what are you going for, here?
I want this to read like a completely frank confession, not just a description. I want the reader to be sucked into this train of thought and not be distracted by any superfluous words or punctuation, to maximise the effect of the imagery.

Comments


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:iconruffienne:
Kay. So.
1st stanza: This stanza puts the reader in the setting and the narrator’s mindset very well, I think. There are a few things I don’t understand, though:
Why is the evening shattering? Is it becoming morning already? It’s a beautiful image and choice of words, but if the night is breaking, then what’s behind the night? You set the setting, then displace it, so it confuses the reader.
I’m also not sure as to why the narrator “forgets which” feeling she had. It seems like the moment and the experience is really important – otherwise, why would you be writing a poem about it? – and I don’t understand why it’s being forgotten. Did the feelings get caught up in everything else? Were the feelings ambiguous to begin with? I suppose it’s the word “forget” that I’m getting hung up on. Maybe something as simple as changing the diction to “couldn’t remember” would do it—just showing some uncertainty, rather than carelessness, would give the effect I think you’re going for.

2nd stanza: I really, absolutely love this one. The rhythm and meter and the reversal at the end of it... all works beautifully. I only have one qualm: the phrase “take me.” It’s just slightly incongruous with the situation—it’s unusual for the guy to say that, as it’s a pretty submissive thing to say. The narrator is certainly submissive, so I would reconsider just that word. (“have me,” perhaps?) Otherwise—lovely.

3rd stanza: I think this is basically perfect, save the issue addressed in the previous paragraph. All of the imagery is beautiful, especially “bound my hands with trust.” I just... love that. Augh. The repeating works well here too, I think because of the slight variation of not saying “and i did” after every clause. Well done.

4th stanza: And this is where things start to get confused, to me.
I don’t see evidence of him “styling [the narrator] as his own.” If one doesn’t love another, how does one own another? I don’t know, something about that line and that concept really rubs me the wrong way. Not because it seems “wrong” per se (it does, to me, but nonetheless), but because it really doesn’t seem to mesh with the poem.
he threw out childish ideals
and replaced them with whispers.

What childish ideals? We have to know exactly what he is giving up in this act, or he doesn’t really exist to the reader, y’know? People are give and take, so if you want both of these characters to be round, show what they’re losing. (Or if you want him to be flat, don’t.)
you'll never tell, will you? he breathed
heavy with himself, stifling a response.

The first part of the second line is really nice, and gives a clear and concise image. The second part loses me. What response is he stifling?
he traced fault-lines across my cheek,
closed his eyes, and pretended
he couldn't see me crack.
i know you, he said. i know you.

The first line is nice. The next three contradict themselves, though. If he’s pretending not to see the narrator think that she will tell, then he wouldn’t say “I know you,” which I read to say “I know you, and I know you will tell.” (I don’t think he would, I guess. It doesn’t make sense.)

5th stanza: I’m really not sure how to take this. It seems to come out of nowhere, and there’s no reference for whose hands or fingernails they are. The last line contradicts the entire poem and narrator’s character—it seems like a preventative thing to say, rather than a post-sex thing to say, sort of making it seem like the entire thing never happened, which... yeah, invalidates the whole poem.

Okay. Phew. Let me know what you think about this.

--
Words, colors, light, sound, stone, wood, bronze belong to the living artist. They belong to anyone who can use them. Loot the Louvre!... Steal anything in sight.
--William Burroughs
:iconwonderfulrachel:
Ohmygoodness. Thankyou so much for all of that, it actually helped so much! :D I find it so useful to see what people think...their honest, gut reactions, because that helps me shape a poem so much more.

I've edited this a little, but not extensively: I'll adress a few of the points you picked up.

1. "evening shatters" - I was actually intending to displace the reader there - kudos for picking that up! - to sort of get rid of any preconceptions they might have about this poem. It's explained later on, now, because you're right - it's a bit of an "out there" metaphor and needs to be explained properly in order for it to be effective.

2. Do you like the last line of the first stanza a little better now? I was going for that feeling of wanting to forget, but being resigned to the fact that it's not even always possible to *understand* what you're feeling...never mind forget about it.

3. I think I'm going to keep "take me", actually - despite the submissive connotations. It was part of my attempt to flesh out the male character, giving him that slight vulnerability. I think that in later drafts, I'll flesh out his character a lot more so that little bit doesn't seem so out-of-character.

4. What do you think of the last stanza? Had a bit of a radical change on that one...I think I prefer this one.

--
=]
:iconruffienne:
1. Wonderful then. And it does work much better now-- addressing it again near the end fixes the confusion, but I think still achieves the displaced effect at the beginning.

2. It's definitely much clearer, and seems generally more consistent with her character and all.

3. That's more than fine-- it wasn't a huge issue to begin with, and I do like the depth it gives the male character, I just think it needs to be a little more justified. You're doing it well already, with the "he lay back and watched me struggle with myself" line. I trust it will come out even more with time.

4. Much better. No more confusion, and it has a much firmer grasp on the poem as a whole now, I think, if that makes sense-- it ties it up as a whole, and doesn't leave it too open-ended. I like it too.

--
Words, colors, light, sound, stone, wood, bronze belong to the living artist. They belong to anyone who can use them. Loot the Louvre!... Steal anything in sight.
--William Burroughs
:iconvictorcarbon:
While there is a lot of pretty language in here I have to disagree with the second stanza.

The first stanza is well-written and starts portraying a decent image and then it leads to the second stanza which, while aesthetically pleasing does nothing but have simple conversation. While it's meant to be in the heat of the moment the words are just...I don't know how I would explain it...'tired' perhaps.

To be honest the poem seems to do what it set out to do so that is really just a personal preference. Along with feeling overly wordy, like you wanted to set a rhythm and put extraneous words out as sacrifices to the Gods of sound.

Again, this is personal preference for what it's worth. You have skill have some wonderful images strewn about in here.

"the evening shattered and rained
on cupped flesh." is awesome.

--
EVERYONE GOES INTO FUCKING ROBOT MODE AND SAYS THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER

<bewareofthesnowman>but i thought i could fake it with strangers!
:iconvictorcarbon:
and 'and' goes in there instead of 'have'. " You have skill and some wonderful images"

--
EVERYONE GOES INTO FUCKING ROBOT MODE AND SAYS THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER

<bewareofthesnowman>but i thought i could fake it with strangers!
:iconvictorcarbon:
also, a title is always a powerful tool. Got one in mind?

--
EVERYONE GOES INTO FUCKING ROBOT MODE AND SAYS THE SAME BULLSHIT OVER AND OVER

<bewareofthesnowman>but i thought i could fake it with strangers!
:icongrimeden:
This is a very powerful piece, which a little bit of rough spots and unresolved finale.

The opening stanza evokes a virgin or 1st time sexual encounter between two people as told via the woman. The initial portrayal illustrates the male as manipulative and intent on sexual ends, and the woman is harder to define. The male portrayal is common given the actions, but it feels poignant and emotional with this voice. The diction does a great job or revealing the character of both personas.

Even the lack of capitalization and ungrammatical I’s illustrates the striking tone of this piece. It visually feels like a whisper. The smallest letters for the softest voice. There is a lot to like in this poem, and a lot of potential if you can refine your language. I feel like I’m listening to a confessional told to a counselor or a priest. It stirs feelings of voyeurism yet is enticing. It’s personal, yet universal.

I do have more to say than lavishing praise on the poem, though.

You can cut “either” in line 6. It is grammatically sound, but unneeded. The ending “anticipation” brings an uncertainty to the female persona that persists throughout the piece. Do you want her so mysterious, or is there a more definite position she can take? Maybe indecisiveness and an unspecific nature is what makes the woman so realistic. … Either that or I’m a bit of a male chauvinist.

I like the change of diction at the end of the second stanza, but the phrasing would flow better by dumping “and he was silent.” This plays against the meaning of “he smothered my words” and they essentially describe the same act. In a comparison between the terms, smothered wins out as more poetically expressive.

There is a language confusion at the end of stanza 3. You have the woman taking action after urged, but in the subsequent line, the man is taking action.

“Fault lines” (no hyphen needed) and “crack” play well with each other, but I wondered if “fault lines” fit the setting. The portrayal feels like an exchange between young adults more than experienced adults. As a result, I doubt the woman having wrinkles (which fault lines visually points me too). Freckles, maybe. A rogue hair, sure. Wrinkles, no way!

All that is left is the end, and, honestly, I’m unsatisfied. The scene doesn’t feel resolved. My first instinct was to take “know” as love, but that is so obviously avoided it cannot be the intent. You must be trying to transcend the conclusion of the piece (and beginning of intercourse) with something that elevates the relationship from passion. What’s the last thing this man would say before intercourse? Is it reassurance, false sincerity, or self-interest?

On top of that, “I know you” reminds me of Han Solo’s retort to Princess Leia just as he is frozen. “I love you!” “I know.” It is the definition of male arrogance. If the final words of the poem are “I know”, there has to be something the man is responding too.

Instead, his comments appear alone and lack the profound end the singlet is reaching for. More than that though, it might be too overtly inconsiderate. Everything negative about the man is told via the woman’s interpretations of his actions. Is this poem more about the woman or the man?

It seems that the man’s questionable character and distinct libido are the subject with the woman’s wavering accentuating his sexual fervor. What you have to resolve is how you portray the final moment before it turns to sex (or rape). What is said, seen, or heard (or, not said, not seen, or not heard) in their last exchange?

The last line doesn’t conclude the piece with a knowing explanation, which summarizes the actions in the poem and simultaneously acknowledges the ensuing coitus.

--
~D

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May 17, 2008
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